Hi everyone
Newbie on forums but fairly knowledgeable old git here so be gentle. Have looked all over for resolve including these forums. Hope I have obeyed all rules.
2003 UK plate / 1.8 petrol Tino S/ MPV Has unstable idle from cold for a few seconds then all ok until cold again . Possible red herring as did get engine management light (MIL) on but please read why in the history below. Really want to sort rough idle issue & unsure if engine management light associated.
Don’t want to start swapping bits & loathed to take to Nissan just yet.....
Have trawled the net to find out what type of DLC (diagnostic link connector) is fitted , lower LH side of steering wheel as pic below / attached (just tried to preview the post on other thread & said I wasn’t allowed as not a member even though signed in !! So apologies if no one else can see it as it explains a lot)
Was hoping to find out code with either cheap reader or paperclip short out x2 pins (chk & 12v).
IN BRIEF – on this vehicle with this connector does anyone know ? (UPDATE : paper clip trick doesnt work on this vehicle instead bought vgate890 diagnostic tester = works a treat but updates & conencting to PC win7 has issues unresolved as yet)
1) if the paperclip method can actually be used to read the codes based on vehicle spec & connector? if so which x1 socket number equals “CHK” to be shorted with 12v ?
2) Is it an OBD2 socket in disguise or what type of socket is it? My thinking is that the x2 lower lugs depict the wider end of a standard D shape OBD2plug. Could anyone confirm this 100%? see photo dotted lines (UPDATE is OBD2 comaptible , Nissan use a consult diagnostics)
3) Which cheap reader / re-setter is compatible with this vehicle?
(any sales person will sell ice to an Eskimo) as various famous sites checked all say their reader is compatible but when entering car details it says sorry not compatible . Not really wanting to go back to Nissan but may have too, unless some wizard can help here.(UPDATE : VGATE890)
READ ON
Problem is the Shape of socket isn’t right for a standard OBD2 But again see white dotted line in photo. According to web results this aged car should be fitted with OBD2 pending enforcement at that time & pin outs clearly don't look like OBD2 !. While the paperclip method cannot be done as pin outs don’t correspond to what is expected when the paperclip method is been talked about i.e. I don’t have 2 outer sockets and unable to find CHK pin.
HISTORY, theories & what tried
# Unsure if coincidence as not 100% sure but ROUGH IDLE SEEMED TO START after redex petrol cleaner put in petrol tank. This addition is done once every few years as have done for many years before. Also found engine oil low so topped up. (but worth a mention just in case)
# After & around this time I noticed engine would rough idle (hunt) from cold only for about 2 – 3 seconds after starting (no MIL lit) & then would be fine until left to cool again. Regardless of outside weather conditions. ALSO NOTE no foot on throttle to start and if tried to drive off before 3 seconds eng may stall or kangaroo while attempting pull away.
# Thought probably a bit of crap in fuel & ignored it but rough idle did not go away.
# I checked & set spark plug gaps (not that far out & colour = nice buff colour not white or sooty black) while inside exhaust also nice clean greyish colour. Getting around 37 MPG as always. With no plumes of smoke etc when driving with reasonable acceleration.
# Exhaust under car no holes in it but found broken front bracket something else to rectify later.
# air filter not that old & clean but also took it out temporarily to try one start but still same rough idle on starting from cold.
# air pipes all looking good no splits or perishing or leaks & all tight. A few easy access breather pipes checked for blockages. But admit not all pipes checked.
# MAF removed inspected & found few black deposits on leading edge (used magnifying glass), cleaned very gentle with squirt of contact cleaner. Definitely cleaner but NO difference.
# MAF volts tested with multimeter and from what I could compare & later confirmed all volts ok before ign on , with ign on, with eng started & with eng slightly rev’d. (according to some guy on youtube, & Haynes manual figures)
# Hair now been pulled out & was banking on it been the MAF so disconnected MAF electrically BUT STILL THE SAME & now MIL lit for the first time as would be expected.
# thinking this was a red herring and to get rid of eng MIL light left battery disconnected 24 hrs to turn off the Mil light.
# Now wanting a diagnostic kit but which one or which 2 pins to short out ????(UPDATE : not on this car) Consulted Haynes electrical diagram to find Diagnotic plug or pin outs for IGN& CHK pins.. No chance. Down loaded Almera service manual from Russian site & a lot better but I think not 100% for Tino model as shows DLC (diagnostic socket) but I have more electrical sockets in mine & CHK not shown.
# Car was due for oil & oil filter change so carried out around this time& as expected no change with cold idle issue but worth a mention... However another possible red herring as after this oil change let car idle for a while to distribute new oil into filter etc then car was rev’d very briefly up to around 3.2K RPM and the MIL light lit ??? unsure if this is now the same fault or just created a new one as rarely does car get beyond this RPM in normal driving & yes I know you should not do this from a cold engine.
# Now getting more desperate for error code reader one way or the other to cure the idle issue more than anything. No point in buying any one as may not fit or be compatible with this obscure connector & pin out. Also still loathed to go to Nissan. (UPDATE: vgate890)
# So my thought was without any 100% correct diagrams lets do some logical testing before attempting shorting out pins willy nilly & short out 12v to gnd or put 12v into ECU & fry this or set fire to the old girl. (UPDATE: no dont try)
So Based on the connector and what most other web sources are stating the pins are numbered as per photo above or thus. (looking from the front of the connector and wider D shape at the bottom)
UPPER ROW (LH socket 16 to RH socket 9 )
sockets populated 16, 13 , 12
Socket empty 15 , 14, 11, 10, 9
LOWER ROW (LH socket 8 to RH socket 1)
Socket populated 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3
sockets empty 2, 1.
# So with +ive disconnected on battery to break loop. Resistance checks carried out with mainly IGN off (but noted if on) with respect to car earth tested each socket.
16 = increases in resistance to a few K ohms (maybe CHK?) & with ign on steady 18.6 ohms.
13 = 6.7M ohm but with ign on 0 ohms (probably 12v IGN TBC)
12 = over range (probably battery feed constant 12v TBC)
8 = 73 ohms (maybe CHK?)
7 = 43K ohms (maybe CHK?)
6 = 1.1K ohms (maybe CHK?)
5 = 0 ohms either car Gnd or signal Gnd
4 = 0 ohms either car Gnd or signal Gnd
3 = 1.1K ohms (maybe CHK?)
Can anyone confirm which pin is 100% CHK socket as not wanting to fry anything if wanting to try paperclip shorting method. Or what reader will read this combo ? Any help from any Nissan Tino wizards appreciated. (UPDATE: is OBD2 or Nissan consult)
Many huge thanks for taking the time to read this long post.
and as I say I don't want to start replacing sensors until I know what I might be up against.
Tino bod (now hairless)
will be away shortly so unable to get web access so apologies if late in any replies
Newbie on forums but fairly knowledgeable old git here so be gentle. Have looked all over for resolve including these forums. Hope I have obeyed all rules.
2003 UK plate / 1.8 petrol Tino S/ MPV Has unstable idle from cold for a few seconds then all ok until cold again . Possible red herring as did get engine management light (MIL) on but please read why in the history below. Really want to sort rough idle issue & unsure if engine management light associated.
Don’t want to start swapping bits & loathed to take to Nissan just yet.....
Have trawled the net to find out what type of DLC (diagnostic link connector) is fitted , lower LH side of steering wheel as pic below / attached (just tried to preview the post on other thread & said I wasn’t allowed as not a member even though signed in !! So apologies if no one else can see it as it explains a lot)
Was hoping to find out code with either cheap reader or paperclip short out x2 pins (chk & 12v).
IN BRIEF – on this vehicle with this connector does anyone know ? (UPDATE : paper clip trick doesnt work on this vehicle instead bought vgate890 diagnostic tester = works a treat but updates & conencting to PC win7 has issues unresolved as yet)
1) if the paperclip method can actually be used to read the codes based on vehicle spec & connector? if so which x1 socket number equals “CHK” to be shorted with 12v ?
2) Is it an OBD2 socket in disguise or what type of socket is it? My thinking is that the x2 lower lugs depict the wider end of a standard D shape OBD2plug. Could anyone confirm this 100%? see photo dotted lines (UPDATE is OBD2 comaptible , Nissan use a consult diagnostics)
3) Which cheap reader / re-setter is compatible with this vehicle?
(any sales person will sell ice to an Eskimo) as various famous sites checked all say their reader is compatible but when entering car details it says sorry not compatible . Not really wanting to go back to Nissan but may have too, unless some wizard can help here.(UPDATE : VGATE890)
READ ON
Problem is the Shape of socket isn’t right for a standard OBD2 But again see white dotted line in photo. According to web results this aged car should be fitted with OBD2 pending enforcement at that time & pin outs clearly don't look like OBD2 !. While the paperclip method cannot be done as pin outs don’t correspond to what is expected when the paperclip method is been talked about i.e. I don’t have 2 outer sockets and unable to find CHK pin.
HISTORY, theories & what tried
# Unsure if coincidence as not 100% sure but ROUGH IDLE SEEMED TO START after redex petrol cleaner put in petrol tank. This addition is done once every few years as have done for many years before. Also found engine oil low so topped up. (but worth a mention just in case)
# After & around this time I noticed engine would rough idle (hunt) from cold only for about 2 – 3 seconds after starting (no MIL lit) & then would be fine until left to cool again. Regardless of outside weather conditions. ALSO NOTE no foot on throttle to start and if tried to drive off before 3 seconds eng may stall or kangaroo while attempting pull away.
# Thought probably a bit of crap in fuel & ignored it but rough idle did not go away.
# I checked & set spark plug gaps (not that far out & colour = nice buff colour not white or sooty black) while inside exhaust also nice clean greyish colour. Getting around 37 MPG as always. With no plumes of smoke etc when driving with reasonable acceleration.
# Exhaust under car no holes in it but found broken front bracket something else to rectify later.
# air filter not that old & clean but also took it out temporarily to try one start but still same rough idle on starting from cold.
# air pipes all looking good no splits or perishing or leaks & all tight. A few easy access breather pipes checked for blockages. But admit not all pipes checked.
# MAF removed inspected & found few black deposits on leading edge (used magnifying glass), cleaned very gentle with squirt of contact cleaner. Definitely cleaner but NO difference.
# MAF volts tested with multimeter and from what I could compare & later confirmed all volts ok before ign on , with ign on, with eng started & with eng slightly rev’d. (according to some guy on youtube, & Haynes manual figures)
# Hair now been pulled out & was banking on it been the MAF so disconnected MAF electrically BUT STILL THE SAME & now MIL lit for the first time as would be expected.
# thinking this was a red herring and to get rid of eng MIL light left battery disconnected 24 hrs to turn off the Mil light.
# Now wanting a diagnostic kit but which one or which 2 pins to short out ????(UPDATE : not on this car) Consulted Haynes electrical diagram to find Diagnotic plug or pin outs for IGN& CHK pins.. No chance. Down loaded Almera service manual from Russian site & a lot better but I think not 100% for Tino model as shows DLC (diagnostic socket) but I have more electrical sockets in mine & CHK not shown.
# Car was due for oil & oil filter change so carried out around this time& as expected no change with cold idle issue but worth a mention... However another possible red herring as after this oil change let car idle for a while to distribute new oil into filter etc then car was rev’d very briefly up to around 3.2K RPM and the MIL light lit ??? unsure if this is now the same fault or just created a new one as rarely does car get beyond this RPM in normal driving & yes I know you should not do this from a cold engine.
# Now getting more desperate for error code reader one way or the other to cure the idle issue more than anything. No point in buying any one as may not fit or be compatible with this obscure connector & pin out. Also still loathed to go to Nissan. (UPDATE: vgate890)
# So my thought was without any 100% correct diagrams lets do some logical testing before attempting shorting out pins willy nilly & short out 12v to gnd or put 12v into ECU & fry this or set fire to the old girl. (UPDATE: no dont try)
So Based on the connector and what most other web sources are stating the pins are numbered as per photo above or thus. (looking from the front of the connector and wider D shape at the bottom)
UPPER ROW (LH socket 16 to RH socket 9 )
sockets populated 16, 13 , 12
Socket empty 15 , 14, 11, 10, 9
LOWER ROW (LH socket 8 to RH socket 1)
Socket populated 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3
sockets empty 2, 1.
# So with +ive disconnected on battery to break loop. Resistance checks carried out with mainly IGN off (but noted if on) with respect to car earth tested each socket.
16 = increases in resistance to a few K ohms (maybe CHK?) & with ign on steady 18.6 ohms.
13 = 6.7M ohm but with ign on 0 ohms (probably 12v IGN TBC)
12 = over range (probably battery feed constant 12v TBC)
8 = 73 ohms (maybe CHK?)
7 = 43K ohms (maybe CHK?)
6 = 1.1K ohms (maybe CHK?)
5 = 0 ohms either car Gnd or signal Gnd
4 = 0 ohms either car Gnd or signal Gnd
3 = 1.1K ohms (maybe CHK?)
Can anyone confirm which pin is 100% CHK socket as not wanting to fry anything if wanting to try paperclip shorting method. Or what reader will read this combo ? Any help from any Nissan Tino wizards appreciated. (UPDATE: is OBD2 or Nissan consult)
Many huge thanks for taking the time to read this long post.
and as I say I don't want to start replacing sensors until I know what I might be up against.
Tino bod (now hairless)
will be away shortly so unable to get web access so apologies if late in any replies
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