N16 DCi-R
- Thread starter edk
- Start date
As if you needed any more torque !!! :lol: If you have a spare 25 bhp & 50 lb/ft lying around, could I have it please ? :zoidberg:
looks like a cracking peice of kit ed, but nothing less was expected with forge's reputation for high quality kit!
Paul I had 1st dibs! Lol
They didn't put the signature "FORGE" graphic in the front
Steve
I didnt ask them to and I don't want that anyway. Subtle is key.
Nope!
Yes I realised that the mesh was actually restricting air flow. See this pic of the old IC and you'll notice the cleaner parts that have been blocked by the solid sections of plastic in the bumper's mesh.
Very shiny :cool2: Any hints on the cosmetic mod you're planning?
Nope!
Yes I realised that the mesh was actually restricting air flow. See this pic of the old IC and you'll notice the cleaner parts that have been blocked by the solid sections of plastic in the bumper's mesh.
^Thanks mate.
Not a great result on the dyno today. Something's up with the engine since the remap or the new IC setup has lost me power and torques. Going to look into it... have to say it doesnt feel slower.
Something was said at PE about the air intake temp correction and allowing for that it would have been 190bhp or something. I don't understand really. The important thing is to look into whether the engine isnt healthy.
Disclaimer! BTW the dyno at RS Tuning and Power Engineering is identical in type and software. Obviously no dyno is the same and conditions werent the same either but otherwise all settings the same. Only change is the IC setup.
A video of 40-99mph to give you an idea of how it performs with out all these BS figures. Really rough gear changes here, I reckon I can coax more out of her.
40-80mph is 7 seconds through the gears, 3rd and 4th.
[video=youtube;mRHG2OFpAj8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRHG2OFpAj8[/video]
Comparable to:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/wrx-3rd-gear-pull-4080-mph_1595194.htm
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...1bWXCA&usg=AFQjCNHPcE6U7rlkeSmF2aegznxwjnXNSQ
The new IC and pipe work. 2" straight off the turbo now.
Need to mount up the intercooler properly now.
Not a great result on the dyno today. Something's up with the engine since the remap or the new IC setup has lost me power and torques. Going to look into it... have to say it doesnt feel slower.
Something was said at PE about the air intake temp correction and allowing for that it would have been 190bhp or something. I don't understand really. The important thing is to look into whether the engine isnt healthy.
Disclaimer! BTW the dyno at RS Tuning and Power Engineering is identical in type and software. Obviously no dyno is the same and conditions werent the same either but otherwise all settings the same. Only change is the IC setup.
A video of 40-99mph to give you an idea of how it performs with out all these BS figures. Really rough gear changes here, I reckon I can coax more out of her.
40-80mph is 7 seconds through the gears, 3rd and 4th.
[video=youtube;mRHG2OFpAj8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRHG2OFpAj8[/video]
Comparable to:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/wrx-3rd-gear-pull-4080-mph_1595194.htm
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...1bWXCA&usg=AFQjCNHPcE6U7rlkeSmF2aegznxwjnXNSQ
The new IC and pipe work. 2" straight off the turbo now.
Need to mount up the intercooler properly now.
yeah there has to be some difference on the dyno's man, not alot but def some, id 100% stick with the PE results as they dyno'd my sr18 and it came out at 136bhp and my tuning place that mapped it run it a 134 before mapping, and they run the same dyno and software too.
Also the FMIC may have made a difference, although the forge one is better, tbh i still think a front mount is a front mount, and the old pipes may have been better being a bigger bore, and the old fmic being bigger too, flowing more air and OVER all cooling the air more,
Next step get the old FMIC back on and do it again,
also it may explain the 1/4 mile times too!
Should have gone dastek too, i always think you would have benefited more from it
Also the FMIC may have made a difference, although the forge one is better, tbh i still think a front mount is a front mount, and the old pipes may have been better being a bigger bore, and the old fmic being bigger too, flowing more air and OVER all cooling the air more,
Next step get the old FMIC back on and do it again,
also it may explain the 1/4 mile times too!
Should have gone dastek too, i always think you would have benefited more from it
it might be the same type and software but from what i've read dyno dynamics have a lot of settings all set up by each individual tuner, which when looking for fly hp figures rely on the correction figures you mention, one can be quite different to another from what i understand.
Hence the stick to the same dyno motto a lot go by. I wouldn't be disheartened ed, theres no logical reason it would lose power at all man.
Hence the stick to the same dyno motto a lot go by. I wouldn't be disheartened ed, theres no logical reason it would lose power at all man.
Ok a few things wrong and contradicting with what you're saying Stu mate but let me first say I do trust the PE dyno results.
Fistly the new Intercooler is the same size if not bigger. The Forge core although slightly shorter, is thicker which is better for lag and flow. The Forge is also the same length overall as the end tanks are bigger which is also better for flow. The pipes although a 1/4" slimmer don't have that 90 degree 38mm bore pipe coming off the turbo now and now go straight into 2" bore. 2" is fine as the Fabia I know that was running 260hp has the same. Stu I really trust that this new setup is better in every way, for flow, lag and cooling.
As for the drag time that was with the old IC and the same dyno type and software at RSTuning (just like your redline place) and my base run was spot on.
So its an engine problem. Tbh I see only one way to tell and that's to go back to RStuning and run on the dyno with this new IC. Going back to PE with the old IC setup on might not show much if it is in fact an engine problem. So yeah I agree same dyno ftw.
Also to note my WHP was down too so that takes the bhp guessing out of the equation.
Fistly the new Intercooler is the same size if not bigger. The Forge core although slightly shorter, is thicker which is better for lag and flow. The Forge is also the same length overall as the end tanks are bigger which is also better for flow. The pipes although a 1/4" slimmer don't have that 90 degree 38mm bore pipe coming off the turbo now and now go straight into 2" bore. 2" is fine as the Fabia I know that was running 260hp has the same. Stu I really trust that this new setup is better in every way, for flow, lag and cooling.
As for the drag time that was with the old IC and the same dyno type and software at RSTuning (just like your redline place) and my base run was spot on.
So its an engine problem. Tbh I see only one way to tell and that's to go back to RStuning and run on the dyno with this new IC. Going back to PE with the old IC setup on might not show much if it is in fact an engine problem. So yeah I agree same dyno ftw.
Also to note my WHP was down too so that takes the bhp guessing out of the equation.
essNchill said:
PE 2009
RSTuning
Base and remap (base now with hybrid turbo which isnt going to do much on the standard map, but otherwise same as at PE 2009).
PE 2010
Annoyingly PE didnt give me an AFR and boost map like last year, and they also didnt adjust the rev scale this time like last year so I stretched the scale in photoshop to give a better comparison in shape to the RSTuning one.
Notice how in both 2009 and 2010 the torque comes in very late on PE's dyno. This is late for a Diesel and also later when compared to RSTuning's dyno. But RSTuning's dyno still shows a late peak in torque. I'd like to point out that on the road it feels like 2000rpm is where the torque starts to kick in, NOT 2500 as shown in the PE 2010 dyno.
I think this all shows that even with the same dyno type running the same software, no two dynos are the same at all. Even if the peak figures are accurate on the PE dyno, the way it's set up in terms of resistance doesnt seem to allow my car to output power in the correct way.
One positive I can take away from all this is by looking at the shapes of the curves I can see that the 'flat spot' in torque and power at 3750rpm in the RSTuning dyno is smoothed out in the PE dyno. I think this shows that the new IC setup is doing it's thing
I think I've just realised what's happening here. I've been reading This.
The intake temp (IT) on the RSTuning dyno run is 24 while the ambient temp (AT) is 18. Compare this to IT 14 and AT 16 at the PE run. Now someone isnt placing the intake probe in the correct place... my money is on PE as I don't remember them putting ANYTHING anywhere near my engine bay. Actually, they didnt. I can believe that in take temps would be higher on a boosted car due to the compressed air. So with it thinking IT was colder than it was it showed the car to be making less power than perhaps it actually is.
Something else, the air flow to the IC might be different at PE as RSTuning used a different type of Dyno Dynamics fan. This could affect cooling but my main point here in the intake temp as recorded by the dynos.
The intake temp (IT) on the RSTuning dyno run is 24 while the ambient temp (AT) is 18. Compare this to IT 14 and AT 16 at the PE run. Now someone isnt placing the intake probe in the correct place... my money is on PE as I don't remember them putting ANYTHING anywhere near my engine bay. Actually, they didnt. I can believe that in take temps would be higher on a boosted car due to the compressed air. So with it thinking IT was colder than it was it showed the car to be making less power than perhaps it actually is.
Something else, the air flow to the IC might be different at PE as RSTuning used a different type of Dyno Dynamics fan. This could affect cooling but my main point here in the intake temp as recorded by the dynos.
Ok, peak figures aside now...
I've been looking at the delivery shown in the curves. In the pic below I've matched RPM and moved the RSTuning dyno to meet peak torque in both. Green=RST, Red=PE with new IC. Quite interesting as it backs up what I was saying about it pulling well in the top end now. It shows a couple of hundred rpm more holding the power, and also the mid range of torque and power is improved, again showing less of a flat spot. Not sure why it comes in so late now, a good 300rpm later, but one reason could be as the new IC flows better the AFR is leaner low down and perhaps the map needs tweaking to pump more fuel to help spool the turbo up a bit. I could get away with that now if more air is going in it wouldnt be smokey.
I've been looking at the delivery shown in the curves. In the pic below I've matched RPM and moved the RSTuning dyno to meet peak torque in both. Green=RST, Red=PE with new IC. Quite interesting as it backs up what I was saying about it pulling well in the top end now. It shows a couple of hundred rpm more holding the power, and also the mid range of torque and power is improved, again showing less of a flat spot. Not sure why it comes in so late now, a good 300rpm later, but one reason could be as the new IC flows better the AFR is leaner low down and perhaps the map needs tweaking to pump more fuel to help spool the turbo up a bit. I could get away with that now if more air is going in it wouldnt be smokey.
Interesting overlay there Ed - seems to me that the new IC has improved the smoothness of the overall powercurve, but also making it last longer. It's kind of odd that it 'appears' to have made more power with a higher intake temp tho' - usually the opposite happens. That's the whole point of having an efficient intercooler, ie. lower the intake temp = more power.