shaggy_master
brapp brapp!
Do I really have to disengage VVL 
Biscuit Build
- Thread starter white_biscuit
- Start date
lol all this de/ve banters stupid - as much as i love it!
the main thing i keep thinkin about with builds like this, and when i open this thread is what you're expecting from the build and what you're gonna be happy with come dyno and 1/4mile time, fun time etc.
if you want a de that will happily beat a 2litre ve like mine (say dynojet 200whp ish kinda) or even joes nicely over 200whp
then yeh you'll probably get it easily.
if on the other hand you've seen the 4-5 23ve and 24ve builds in the US and want to get anywhere near there dizzy power figures or are expecting/trying to really push the limits of de and see what it can do at its absolute maximum i think you gotta really think about it before trying and being disappointed.
i'm really not tryna put a downer on it, i'd fuckin love to see epic powerz from this, but the way i see it if you really wanna go all out.....and like dale said with a build like this it's gotta be go hard or go home, have you got the time, money, knowledge, support from tuners etc to do it?
all those 24ve guys in america seem to be in the position that they have a shit load of money to spend on several blocks when things have gone wrong with sleeving etc, they all have a massive wealth of knowledge with numerous engine builds to their name, most of them seem to have their own workshops where they can do all fabricating work, some machining, and even their own tuning in jamies case!
they all seem to be able to spend thousands of dollars and hours upon hours of dyno time, research, fabricaing on headers n stuff. I'm sure none of them just bolted their first parts list together and made 300whp with a days tuning.
I'm realy not tryna put a downer on it, but if you get up to your nuts in guts in this build and then make 210whp will you be happy? or have you got the time, money, knowledge and inclination to change things if say the cams don't work well with the stroker crank....or the headers not working, or the tuning sucks etc etc....
it just seems like total unknown a build like this with a de, and without a fuck load of resources to keep changing/adjusting things, could easily end up being very mediocre - although i genuinely genuinely hope it doesn't, cos it'd be insane if it all worked.
the main thing i keep thinkin about with builds like this, and when i open this thread is what you're expecting from the build and what you're gonna be happy with come dyno and 1/4mile time, fun time etc.
if you want a de that will happily beat a 2litre ve like mine (say dynojet 200whp ish kinda) or even joes nicely over 200whp
then yeh you'll probably get it easily.if on the other hand you've seen the 4-5 23ve and 24ve builds in the US and want to get anywhere near there dizzy power figures or are expecting/trying to really push the limits of de and see what it can do at its absolute maximum i think you gotta really think about it before trying and being disappointed.
i'm really not tryna put a downer on it, i'd fuckin love to see epic powerz from this, but the way i see it if you really wanna go all out.....and like dale said with a build like this it's gotta be go hard or go home, have you got the time, money, knowledge, support from tuners etc to do it?
all those 24ve guys in america seem to be in the position that they have a shit load of money to spend on several blocks when things have gone wrong with sleeving etc, they all have a massive wealth of knowledge with numerous engine builds to their name, most of them seem to have their own workshops where they can do all fabricating work, some machining, and even their own tuning in jamies case!
they all seem to be able to spend thousands of dollars and hours upon hours of dyno time, research, fabricaing on headers n stuff. I'm sure none of them just bolted their first parts list together and made 300whp with a days tuning.
I'm realy not tryna put a downer on it, but if you get up to your nuts in guts in this build and then make 210whp will you be happy? or have you got the time, money, knowledge and inclination to change things if say the cams don't work well with the stroker crank....or the headers not working, or the tuning sucks etc etc....
it just seems like total unknown a build like this with a de, and without a fuck load of resources to keep changing/adjusting things, could easily end up being very mediocre - although i genuinely genuinely hope it doesn't, cos it'd be insane if it all worked.
Yeah absolutely, i agree 100% Craig.
The whole DE vs VE thing is yawn too. I think everyone knows the deal between DE and VE.
Ammar knows the situation too, he knows he wont get near what a 24VE makes. Its his choice if he wants to go all out though. I expect a 24DE to be capable of making in the region of 230-240whp..which ive already said. Thats not to say that Ammar will definatley make that though.
Me personally, im happy in the knowledge that i can still compete at this level. Im not trying to put myself up against the big bore VE's, rather just challenging myself and targeting 2ltr VE's. Of which both a 200whp DE and 200whp VE can be had for similar money...so at this point for me, it doesnt matter.
The whole DE vs VE thing is yawn too. I think everyone knows the deal between DE and VE.
Ammar knows the situation too, he knows he wont get near what a 24VE makes. Its his choice if he wants to go all out though. I expect a 24DE to be capable of making in the region of 230-240whp..which ive already said. Thats not to say that Ammar will definatley make that though.
Me personally, im happy in the knowledge that i can still compete at this level. Im not trying to put myself up against the big bore VE's, rather just challenging myself and targeting 2ltr VE's. Of which both a 200whp DE and 200whp VE can be had for similar money...so at this point for me, it doesnt matter.
I think that the 'increase capacity first' approach to tuning is a great first step for any build. You've got power automatically. The good thing is with this that if it turns out that the valvetrain is lacking or the flow isn't enough for the displacement then you can always use a VE cylinder head (worked or not) and see gains. Once the bottom end is built then you've got a great base for everything else: Heads, manifolds, turbos ...
What's this. Ve/de/ turbo talk...lol
Iam sure those of us who wanted to have a turbo build could have.
Iam sure those of us who wanted to have a ve build could have.
Iam sure those of us who wanted to have a de build could have.
I could have modified my old evo 6 to 600bhp if I wanted to with the money I have spent so far on my Sunny Gti SR20VE.
But theres loads of 600bhp evos.
We are doing things different, building fast n/a motors that we can rag to death without fear of something going wrong.
Turbo'd cars on the other hand, yes I've been there before.
Your worried about something going wrong, turbo, piston, head gaskets, leaks etc.
N/a all the way, so good luck ammar.
But please for god sake let's get the record straight..VE ftmw bitches...
Iam sure those of us who wanted to have a turbo build could have.
Iam sure those of us who wanted to have a ve build could have.
Iam sure those of us who wanted to have a de build could have.
I could have modified my old evo 6 to 600bhp if I wanted to with the money I have spent so far on my Sunny Gti SR20VE.
But theres loads of 600bhp evos.
We are doing things different, building fast n/a motors that we can rag to death without fear of something going wrong.
Turbo'd cars on the other hand, yes I've been there before.
Your worried about something going wrong, turbo, piston, head gaskets, leaks etc.
N/a all the way, so good luck ammar.
But please for god sake let's get the record straight..VE ftmw bitches...
Owned high comp DE, a DET and a VE.
DET was alot of fun, the surge was cool as frick. But that was more becasue it was in a proper RWD chassis, . DE was abit of a disaster, partly on my part and partly becasue of the horrendous driveablility. VE is perfect as fanboi as that sounds, easy to drive, sounds epic, good power, 95 ron blah blah blah.
DET was alot of fun, the surge was cool as frick. But that was more becasue it was in a proper RWD chassis, . DE was abit of a disaster, partly on my part and partly becasue of the horrendous driveablility. VE is perfect as fanboi as that sounds, easy to drive, sounds epic, good power, 95 ron blah blah blah.
shaggy_master
brapp brapp!
But then again Dale and Hally's dog rough idles at the meet tonight didn't fail to make every fucker smile
See the way i see it is everyone seems to give up on DE when VE comes into play as its more superior - yes!
However thats not to say every single engine build should be VVL'd!!
The guys who are in the position they are now who you're referring to Craig, they've tried and tested and lets just say im trying..
I appreciate you guys sharing your opinion, and i don't wanna put a swap to it, coz come on lets face it, what the fuck do i know..
I guess this'll be a very expensive first time and i know it'll be epic, not coz its gonna be like 240whp, or its gonna be super fast or anything, but purely for the reason that its something I've gone and physically built myself, from not knowing how an engine works to putting an engine together, that works and will be pretty damn insane!!
However thats not to say every single engine build should be VVL'd!!
The guys who are in the position they are now who you're referring to Craig, they've tried and tested and lets just say im trying..
I appreciate you guys sharing your opinion, and i don't wanna put a swap to it, coz come on lets face it, what the fuck do i know..
I guess this'll be a very expensive first time and i know it'll be epic, not coz its gonna be like 240whp, or its gonna be super fast or anything, but purely for the reason that its something I've gone and physically built myself, from not knowing how an engine works to putting an engine together, that works and will be pretty damn insane!!
And as Spook has very simply put it, and something i've always said, some point in the future, i will go VE, but i WILL build this DE, and then i'll look into VE. Not yet though!
shaggy_master
brapp brapp!
Although you should waive the first build and mapping cost and just do it right first time if you plan on going VE later anyway!
Doing a DE is not wrong.....
Though going VE is not gonna be anytime soon
Though going VE is not gonna be anytime soon
again you missed the point of what joes sayin, if you're planning to go ve after on the same bottom end anyway tryna to do both is idiotic.
so you build the bottom end at 12.5:1 for a de....then put the ve head on and it's nearly 14:1 or something?!
or you build the de at like 11.5:1....then its just gonna be totally mediocre and really disappoint you as a de.
so you build the bottom end at 12.5:1 for a de....then put the ve head on and it's nearly 14:1 or something?!
or you build the de at like 11.5:1....then its just gonna be totally mediocre and really disappoint you as a de.
Or i could build a 12.5:1 DE, and then when time comes, put a slightly thicker gasket and maintain similar CR with VE
Im not missing the point Joe's trying to make, i understand where he's coming from, and to some extent i agree, but its going DE for now and will be for a while. VE is just a thought..
Im not missing the point Joe's trying to make, i understand where he's coming from, and to some extent i agree, but its going DE for now and will be for a while. VE is just a thought..