shaggy_master
brapp brapp!
Found out that his GTi is equipped with a non-RR motor lol
StevenC's GTi
- Thread starter StevenC
- Start date
no wonder it was so fcuking quick
I'm not naming any names. This post has been put in a number of places so not naming forum members / garages / mail services etc till I've properly got to the bottom of this.
My s3r cam's arrived a week or so ago. I noted when they arrived there wasn't much protection on the ends but plenty elsewhere. There was a wooden block placed between the cams which was -just- longer than them. I had a properly close look at the cams and didn't see anything alarming. I mentioned to the seller that there was less protection on the ends than I ideally would have wanted.
Took the car to one of my trusted guys as I wanted to make sure that this was done right. He's been a mechanic for 17+ years and is currently a BMW specialist. Whipped the old cams out no bother at all. He followed the JWT guide to perfection. Didn't mind me standing watching carefully what was happening.
The old cams whipped out. The new cams whipped in a piece of cake. Watched the torque sequence for the retainers and was all done taking extreme care. Took forever actually. Rolled her forward in gear and then back to let the tensioner take up the slack in the chain again. Rocker cover off and the fuel pump fuse pulled, we went to turn her over on the key to see if she'd fire. Started to move then wham...locks of slack in chain on the top but hadn't turned over. Checked cam's immediately and ignition cam was broken between cylinder 1 and 2 just past the second retainer.
Had a good look and after what I thought was a pretty clean break, I've been assured it's quite a brittle one. I'll get pics asap. The mechanic has never seen a cam break when turning over like this and he's done a few. He said dropped cam as soon as he saw the break which appears more brittle to the middle but shiny at the edges. My dad believes the cams to have either been dropped or poorly cast at production. When I explained these are second hand and been in a car already...that sort of eliminates the cast issue.
The old cams went back in with alot less care applied due to being so pissed off and it being late but still using same process and they are ok. No bent valves as engine hasn't turned over. Has responded well to an ECU re-set tho
The seriously annoying thing here is I'm gonna have to fall out with someone over this and all the guys involved are who I'd consider friends. I don't think this has been as a result of poor fitting. I'm in the process of completing a claim form for the postage service however I've been told over the phone they won't play ball as the packaging was not marked "fragile". We'll see what comes of it though.
Currently £300ish down, but could still be worse...The car runs ok just now so AT THE MOMENT, it's looking ok for JAE.
My s3r cam's arrived a week or so ago. I noted when they arrived there wasn't much protection on the ends but plenty elsewhere. There was a wooden block placed between the cams which was -just- longer than them. I had a properly close look at the cams and didn't see anything alarming. I mentioned to the seller that there was less protection on the ends than I ideally would have wanted.
Took the car to one of my trusted guys as I wanted to make sure that this was done right. He's been a mechanic for 17+ years and is currently a BMW specialist. Whipped the old cams out no bother at all. He followed the JWT guide to perfection. Didn't mind me standing watching carefully what was happening.
The old cams whipped out. The new cams whipped in a piece of cake. Watched the torque sequence for the retainers and was all done taking extreme care. Took forever actually. Rolled her forward in gear and then back to let the tensioner take up the slack in the chain again. Rocker cover off and the fuel pump fuse pulled, we went to turn her over on the key to see if she'd fire. Started to move then wham...locks of slack in chain on the top but hadn't turned over. Checked cam's immediately and ignition cam was broken between cylinder 1 and 2 just past the second retainer.
Had a good look and after what I thought was a pretty clean break, I've been assured it's quite a brittle one. I'll get pics asap. The mechanic has never seen a cam break when turning over like this and he's done a few. He said dropped cam as soon as he saw the break which appears more brittle to the middle but shiny at the edges. My dad believes the cams to have either been dropped or poorly cast at production. When I explained these are second hand and been in a car already...that sort of eliminates the cast issue.
The old cams went back in with alot less care applied due to being so pissed off and it being late but still using same process and they are ok. No bent valves as engine hasn't turned over. Has responded well to an ECU re-set tho
The seriously annoying thing here is I'm gonna have to fall out with someone over this and all the guys involved are who I'd consider friends. I don't think this has been as a result of poor fitting. I'm in the process of completing a claim form for the postage service however I've been told over the phone they won't play ball as the packaging was not marked "fragile". We'll see what comes of it though.
Currently £300ish down, but could still be worse...The car runs ok just now so AT THE MOMENT, it's looking ok for JAE.
shaggy_master
brapp brapp!
You shouldn't turn it over with the key first time, you should turn it over by hand with a wrench on crank pulley.. And there's no reason the chain should have gone slack...?
Hmmmmmmm
Hmmmmmmm
is this a typo?
haha two people post and it's everyone?! :lol:. Just let it be Ross, that's the great thing about forums, you can choose to ignore what you want
.The other 50% (!) of posts was sympathy...so not sure where the third degree came from! :lol:
shaggy_master
brapp brapp!
We're all sympathetic, but the fact is, when you've changed anything to do with timing, you ALWAYS turn it over by hand just to be safe.
Joe
Joe
shaggy_master
brapp brapp!
Ask Simcard, he's a mechanic, and I'd put everything I own on the fact that he grabbed a wrench and turned his engine over by hand..
Same goes for Wezz.
I turned mine over, and David's when I fitted his cams.
There's just no logical reason why you'd use the key to turn it over.. I can't understand it.
Same goes for the Fuel pump fuse, sounds like the guy was clutching straws to me, cos its not like it'd fire with the valve cover and therefore all the breathers and the leads disconnected..
And then there's the chain slack issue..
Joe
Same goes for Wezz.
I turned mine over, and David's when I fitted his cams.
There's just no logical reason why you'd use the key to turn it over.. I can't understand it.
Same goes for the Fuel pump fuse, sounds like the guy was clutching straws to me, cos its not like it'd fire with the valve cover and therefore all the breathers and the leads disconnected..
And then there's the chain slack issue..
Joe
^ i dont think a tech would do that, when i fitted my flywheel i still rotated the engine by hand to see if it was dragging anywhere - takes 40sec just. My comment about the rocker cover being off and then what happens next is unbelievable. i mean rocker cover off, means ht leads off thus it would fire anyways?!
We are all here for support with a positive aim
dd
We are all here for support with a positive aim
dd
it seems us silver GTi owners are having bad luck with cams, thats made me think twice about fitting the one N1 cam i have that isnt broken, i havent actually thoroughly checked it yet but id say it will be fractured somewhere and just like you steve im 380 quid out of pocket as i cant claim either
but on the subject of turning it over by hand 1st, yes absolutely a must, i turned mine over about 4 times before the engine was even in the car
but on the subject of turning it over by hand 1st, yes absolutely a must, i turned mine over about 4 times before the engine was even in the car
gutted for you mate 
but turning over by hand is like the most basic and simple of things to do/should do when you do anything involving rotating engine gubbins cranking it from the starter is way too violent/fast to see if anything if catching/rubbing/hitting..........
for a 17+ year mechanic to want crank it from the starter to see if it will turn over would raise alarm bells...
when my cams arrived from JWT they were wrapped individually in bubble wrap and cardboard,
having a piece of wood between them is more than adequate....
but turning over by hand is like the most basic and simple of things to do/should do when you do anything involving rotating engine gubbins cranking it from the starter is way too violent/fast to see if anything if catching/rubbing/hitting..........
for a 17+ year mechanic to want crank it from the starter to see if it will turn over would raise alarm bells...
when my cams arrived from JWT they were wrapped individually in bubble wrap and cardboard,
having a piece of wood between them is more than adequate....
i think a few of you know where the cams came from and it will come out anyway, they were mine
I'm gutted about this and really sorry for steven - i also think we'll be able to claim as they were spent special delivery next day and insured up to £500. The reason i didn't mark them 'fragile' is cos of the stories i've heard about it making no difference and if anything gettin thrown around more!
Furthermore, each cam was wrapped in numerous layers of thick bubble wrap, then both strapped firmly either side of a piece of wood to keep them straight and stiff. After that they were wrapped again as a whole in a lot of bubble wrap and parcel tape. The wood would surely have stopped any impact from having much effect, especially to the point of bending the cam enough to create a nice clean break. And even if they did take a big impact, surely if enough to break the cam it would have been visible on inspection?
Difference with wezz's was the lack of packing iirc, and having spoken to other people who bought new cams, they only arrived in thin bubble wrap and a thin card board box anyway.
Like i say, i'm not trying to poke holes or bitch, and i wouldn't want to fall out over this steven, i really hope we can claim for them. However, after knowing both the state of packing they were sent in, the lack of visible problems in the time since they arrived, and moreover some of the description of the fitting procedure - i'm not sure what to think.
If the JWT guide was followed to the letter why was there slack in the chain as don't JWT say to use the wood block method?
Also, if the tensioner was retracted or removed, why was there slack that needed to be tightened up? surely that slack is taken up after the retaining clip is moved from the tensioner?
And as for turning it over on the key?! Why on earth such an experienced mechanic would do that is beyond me, especially after the chain slack issue.
Again, i'm not trying to be confrontational or have a dig at you at all Steven, but to the same effect it seems like this is instantly being blamed on me for poor packaging, and i don't appreciate it at all. The installation sounds suspect to me, and i can't see an impact heavy enough to do any damage on the end of the cams resulting in such a clean break.
I am really sorry mate and really do hope we can claim for them and sort this asap.
Craig
I'm gutted about this and really sorry for steven - i also think we'll be able to claim as they were spent special delivery next day and insured up to £500. The reason i didn't mark them 'fragile' is cos of the stories i've heard about it making no difference and if anything gettin thrown around more!
Furthermore, each cam was wrapped in numerous layers of thick bubble wrap, then both strapped firmly either side of a piece of wood to keep them straight and stiff. After that they were wrapped again as a whole in a lot of bubble wrap and parcel tape. The wood would surely have stopped any impact from having much effect, especially to the point of bending the cam enough to create a nice clean break. And even if they did take a big impact, surely if enough to break the cam it would have been visible on inspection?
Difference with wezz's was the lack of packing iirc, and having spoken to other people who bought new cams, they only arrived in thin bubble wrap and a thin card board box anyway.
Like i say, i'm not trying to poke holes or bitch, and i wouldn't want to fall out over this steven, i really hope we can claim for them. However, after knowing both the state of packing they were sent in, the lack of visible problems in the time since they arrived, and moreover some of the description of the fitting procedure - i'm not sure what to think.
If the JWT guide was followed to the letter why was there slack in the chain as don't JWT say to use the wood block method?
Also, if the tensioner was retracted or removed, why was there slack that needed to be tightened up? surely that slack is taken up after the retaining clip is moved from the tensioner?
And as for turning it over on the key?! Why on earth such an experienced mechanic would do that is beyond me, especially after the chain slack issue.
Again, i'm not trying to be confrontational or have a dig at you at all Steven, but to the same effect it seems like this is instantly being blamed on me for poor packaging, and i don't appreciate it at all. The installation sounds suspect to me, and i can't see an impact heavy enough to do any damage on the end of the cams resulting in such a clean break.
I am really sorry mate and really do hope we can claim for them and sort this asap.
Craig
the wood was longer than the cams, and there was plenty of bubble wrap to protect them. An impact large enough to have gone through it would have shown on the packaging and initial inspection i'm sure. And i don't understand how it would result in a nice clean break like that, without damaging the edges of the ends of the cams.